Q & A WITH MICHAEL BLAKE: Michael F. Blake has been called "the walking encyclopedia on the life and career of Lon Chaney." His trilogy of books on Chaney, Lon Chaney: The Man Behind the Thousand Faces, A Thousand Faces: Lon Chaney's Unique Artistry in Motion Pictures and The Films of Lon Chaney, is considered to be the definitive scholarship on the famed actor. Blake's knowledge of Chaney's life and career has made him a sought-after guest speaker and production consultant on many projects. He has written the liner notes for the MGM Home Video laser disc editions of Chaney's The Phantom of the Opera, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and The Lon Chaney Collection. He also was a consultant for the Kino Video film series on Chaney, as well as for The Universal Story, a 1995 documentary on Universal Studios. In 1994, Blake served as guest speaker at the Lon Chaney retrospective at the International Mystery Film Festival in Italy. In 1986, Blake was responsible for the renaming and dedication of the Lon Chaney Theater in the actor's hometown of Colorado Springs, Colorado, even paying for the theater's marquee. He was also instrumental for the Hollywood Make-Up Union posthumously honoring Chaney's make-up achievements by presenting an award to the actor's grandson, Lon Ralph Chaney, during a film tribute to Chaney at UCLA in 1983. Blake is the first make-up artist to be allowed to examine Chaney's make-up case at the Natural History Museum in Los Angeles (for the French Television show, Hollywood), and is currently advising the museum in the restoration of Chaney's make-up case and other materials held by the museum. Blake's collection of Lon Chaney memorabilia is considered the most extensive in the world and includes 120 lobby cards, 10 posters, more than 1,900 photographs and four autographed photographs. He has lectured extensively and written many articles pertaining to Chaney for such publications as Filmfax, Performing Arts, Cult Movies and the Los Angeles Times. He has been featured on television shows including Entertainment Tonight, Movie Magic and CNN Show Biz Today. An Emmy Award-winning make-up artist, Blake has worked on such productions as Independence Day; Tough Guys; Soapdish; Strange Days; Star Trek VI; Sister Act; Magnum, P.I.; and Happy Days. His vast knowledge of make-up has allowed him to accurately describe how Chaney created his famous faces. Blake worked as a child actor, appearing on The Munsters, Adam-12, The Lucy Show, Bonanza, Bewitched, Kung-Fu and Marcus Welby, M.D. He has also performed as a guest clown with the Ringling Bros.-Barnum & Bailey Circus. Between make-up assignments, Blake is at work on Greasepainting to Prosthetics: The History of Motion Picture Make-up and A Movie Buff's Guide to Hollywood. The following interview was conducted with Michael Blake in a TCM chat on November 18, 1998 and it is being re-posted here in conjunction with our October Lon Chaney tribute. Question: Was Lon hearing impaired? -- No. None of the Chaney children were deaf, and as far as I have been able to track with the various family relatives since then, there has never been another case of deafness within the family. Question: Did Lon do mostly Horror Films? -- Being associated only with horror films is one of the biggest misnomers with Chaney. He was known as Hollywood's first character star, and if you sit down and look at his entire filmography, maybe five or six can be classified in the horror genre. His biggest grossing film for MGM under contract was 1927's Tell It to the Marines, which grossed $6.1 million, in which he played a tough drill sergeant. And he wore no makeup in it whatsoever. Question: Mike, what's your favorite classic movie? -- It's a tie between Tell It to the Marines and While the City Sleeps.. I think Tell It to the Marines, he's just so damn good in it as the tough marine sergeant. It's a model role that was used in several war films since then. He looked the part, he acted the part; the way the marines honored his performance was making him the first actor to be an honorary member of the Marine Corps. In While the City Sleeps, he also proved he could act, playing a tough inspector. A lot of people said he just hid behind makeup, but his acting is what drew the fans in. They were amazed by his quality of acting. Question: Didn't he almost not get Tell it to the Marines? -- There's no truth that there was talk in the industry he wasn't suited to the part. Question: Are there any Chaney films that you would like see that you did not? -- While I was working on my third book, The Films of Lon Chaney, I found out that the Amsterdam film archives has a print of The Wicked Darling, which was the first movie he made in 1919 with director Tod Browning. And I got a chance, finally, to see a copy of it on videotape, which was just amazing. Out of 157 films he made that we know of, only 44 exist in either complete or partial form. Question: Some have seen the deaths of Normand and Chaney in 1930 as the absolute end of silent film--do you agree with that? -- I would say that has a lot of validity. Certainly he and Pickford were two of the last transfers from the silent era to talking pictures. I think basically sound films pretty much killed silents by 1928, but they are kind of a representation of the final hurrah. Question: How much did Lon's hunchback weigh in The Hunchback of Notre Dame? -- Less than 20 pounds, and it was made out of plaster. Question: What do you think Chaney would have brought to Dracula had he lived? -- First off, Chaney was not going to do Dracula. I detailed this quite extensively in A Thousand Faces, my second book. Chaney was under contract to MGM, who was not going to loan out one of their top stars to another studio. This is one of those myths that has been repeated and repeated without any hard research, and the fact of the matter is that there was some discussion between Chaney and Universal, and it appears to be more of a contract ploy between Chaney and MGM. At the time, early 1929 or 1930, his contract did not call for him to do a talking picture, and he had MGM over a barrel on this argument. I guess Universal did talk to MGM about loaning him out, but they would not let that happen because they would lose millions of dollars. His films were making a substantial amount at the time, and they were not about to loan him out and lose that kind of money. Question: Can you talk about Chaney's relationship with Irving Thalberg? -- I think there was a great admiration between the two of them. Chaney liked Thalberg; they certainly knew each other from Universal, but Chaney was not afraid to stand up to him. Chaney had a bigger hand in the making of Hunchback than many of us know; however, he would stand up to Thalberg and at one point told him the entire proposition rests with you, yes or no? One of my favorite stories is at MGM, Chaney always quit at 5 pm unless they were doing night scenes. Thalberg came down one day because they had a lot of extras and had to work late; if Lon called off, they would have to bring everyone back the next day. Chaney refused and said, I come in at 6 a.m. in the morning and these people need to work. So they sent them home and came back the next day. Lon was not one to be pushed around. Question: Are there any existing copies of London After Midnight? -- As far as we know, the answer is no. There have been numerous reports-if I had $1000 for every time I have this question I'd be very wealthy. Right now there are rumors, and that' s all they are-- just rumors. Question: How accurate was the bio-pic A Man of a Thousand Faces? -- Overall it was somewhat accurate. Of course, they took some dramatic liberties, but for the most part it was true. The ending of course was not. He never handed his makeup case to his son; he never wanted him to be an actor. At the time a lot of people involved in Chaney's life were still alive, so there were certain things they could not cover. I have mixed feelings because the film plays up his unhappy marriage to his first wife rather than showing his true genius as an actor. Question: Was Chaney ever invited to join the conglomerate of stars during the formation of United Artists? -- No. He was not that big of a star at the time, in 1919, and Chaney didn't really hit superstardom until 1923 with Hunchback. So he was not brought up with UA at that point. Question: How did Chaney influence you in makeup and film? -- It was a tremendous influence, one of the reasons I became a makeup artist. I'm probably the only person in Hollywood who carries a picture of him in my kit. I've found a lot of fans of his because of that photo, including Whoopi Goldberg and Burt Lancaster. He's been quite an influence in my life. Question: What was Chaney like personally? -- He did not like going to movie premieres; he rarely signed autographs. He was a very honest person; he told you what he felt and that was it. He never fell into the star syndrome. He never forgot where he came from, and he was extremely kind and sensitive to people. One day he was going to his dressing room at MGM, and he noticed a bunch of baby birds had fallen on the ground from their nest. He picked the baby birds up and climbed up the three, then put the birds in the nest. When he got down, actress Peggy Woods saw him. He asked her to please not tell anyone since everyone thought he was so hardboiled. He really had a tremendous soft spot for people. Question: What do you think of Lon Chaney Jr.? -- He was a good character actor, but he was never a star. He was never the actor his father was. I often wonder if he might not have had a happier life had he stayed out of the business like his father wanted him to. He had a tremendous cross to bear in that his father was such a big star, a dominant actor, and he got tossed into this horror film genre, which kind of spills back on his father - people say "like father, like son." He got stuck in something he wasn't really happy with; it was just one of those things where it clicked, he made money, and off he went. If you look at him in High Noon or Defiant Ones or Of Mice and Men , certainly, he's a very good character actor. Question: How did Chaney get along with other actors? -- For the most part, fairly well. There were some he didn't care for; I have a letter from him to his business manager described two actors on All the Brothers Were Valiant saying the girl was all beauty, no brains, and the leading man was a dumbbell. But for the most part he got along well with actors. He would go out of his way to help young actors, but he didn't tolerate someone being nonprofessional. Question: What films would you recomend for someone to see of Lon Chaney's. The top five or so. -- Of course there's The Penalty, The Unknown (which is quite often on TCM), Hunchback of Notre Dame, The Phantom of the Opera of course, and my favorites, Tell It to the Marines and While the CIty Sleeps, which hopefully TCM will air! Question: What has been the hardest part of writing a book on Lon Chaney? -- Six months after my first book was out, I came across all this great material from Lon's business manager's family, which literally rewrites the history of Hunchback. We all thought Thalberg was responsible for bringing the book to the screen, and actually it turned out to be Chaney's idea. So I thought God, what do I do now? So then I wrote three books instead of one. The other frustrating thing is tracking down people who might have known Chaney only to find they passed away months before, but there were happy accidents. A friend of mine had seen my first book, and his mother worked in a nursing home. One of her patients happened to be a nurse at a hospital where Chaney got his last cancer treatment, so I got to interview her for my book. Question: How much was Chaney involved with the reshoot of Phantom of the Opera ? -- Universal tried to get him to go back and do dialogue sequences, which would be typical back then, doing one or two scenes. But MGM wasn't going to let him go, and Chaney wasn't going to go. For the 1929 reissue they had a notice saying note: Mr. Chaney's performance is a silent one. Question: If he wouldn't have passed away so soon, do you think he would have been in Tod Browning's Freaks? -- I don' t think he would have done anything in Freaks. By 1930 Browning was through at MGM, so I don't know if they would have done any more films. But if you look at 1936's The Devil Doll, he would have played that part instead of Lionel Barrymore. Had Chaney not died, I don't think Wallace Berry would have been such a big star because a lot of the roles he took would have been played by Chaney, such as Grand Hotel and Viva Villa. Question: Was it difficult to gather information for your books, given how long ago Chaney worked? -- Very difficult! Some of it was really easy though; I've been interested in Chaney since I was 10 years old. Growing up as a kid, I got to know some of the older actors who were then in their 70s who had worked with Chaney. I would ask them questions. When I was a teenager, I knew Chaney's youngest brother, who was in his 80s. Throughout the years if I ran into someone who I thought might have known him, I would ask questions. This was strictly a hobby. Burt Lancaster was the one much later who said, Why don't you write a book? Sometimes you hit this big goldmine of material writing material like this, it's very tough, but it can be very rewarding. Question: Is there a resurgence of Lon Chaney films in other countries? -- I think there is an interest in Chaney, and a growing interest in silent films over the last 5 or 6 years that has come to the forefront. I hope that there is a Chaney resurgence; he certainly deserves it. Question: What was Lon's favorite movie that he ever did? -- It was Tell It to the Marines . In some notes from his second wife, Hazel, she planned to do a biography of him after he died. All the notes from Alfred Grasso, his business manager, had notes saying he was proudest of that role and really enjoyed it. They allowed him to operate the breach of a gun on the ship, which he was proud of because they don't normally allow a civilian to do things like that. He seems to be having a good time in the movie when you watch it. Question: Did Lon serve in WW1? -- No, he didn't. He was 35 at the time and had custody of his son, so he was over the age that they would have accepted him. Question: Who else contributed to the profession? -- I think from an acting point of view, Janni was close to Chaney's acting intensity. For star power you had Pickford, Fairbanks. Question: Are you happy with how modern media deals with silent films? -- Not really. I think they could deal with it better and appreciate it better. I'm grateful TCM has taken a leadership in showing silent films on Sundays, which is something where at least people are able to see them. I wish people would look at silent films as something different from a jerky old tin piano thing. With a good score and the right projection speed, you can hook an audience. I've seen a young boy watching The Unknown and suddenly be cowering at the end, and he was even mimicking Lon at one point like the knifethrower. I've seen too many times that if you present the film properly, the audience is still there. One of the worst things you can do is show a silent film with a horrible score. I've seen it several times with Chaney films, and it's deadly. Then if you show the same film - which is a good film - with a perfect score, you've got the audience hooked. In L.A. we have the Silent Film Society, and we have the American Cinematheque, which is going to be showing silent films once a week, I believe. Of course we had the great silent movie theater here in L.A., and a friend of his took over until his murder a couple of years ago. There are places around the country, and I think there's an audience there. I've seen a lot of silents lately in the LA area, and the average age ranges from the 20s to 40s. When I was a kid, I was the youngest one in the audience, and 50-60 was the average age. I've seen the demographics change. Question: Can you talk about Chaney at the end of his career? -- I think at the time when talkies were coming in, Lon certainly didn't want to do talkies. He realized it was a no-win situation. I've often speculated that one of the reasons he held so steadfastly to silent films was because he realized deaf people of the world would once again be shut out. If you were deaf and lived in France, they could change the title card and you could understand it. With talking films a lot of deaf people were shut out. I think that was some thing he wanted to hold out for. By 1929 theater exhibitors had voted him the top male star, he was at the top of his game, and he was looked upon as the actor's actor. He was almost the Laurence Olivier of his time. He was really well thought of as an eminent dramatic actor, he was that good. Judging by The Unholy Three, his only talkie, there is no doubt in my mind he would have been successful in talking films. It's frustrating when you think about all the roles he could have played. I would have loved to see him in Grand Hotel playing Wallace Beery's part. Question: Did any critics of his time dislike Chaney? -- Oh, yes. Several of his movies were not well liked by the critics. Maybe they liked his performance but not the movie, such as London after Midnight . Interestingly, a Variety critic panned Hunchback and Phantom, saying they were horrible, unpleasant to watch. And what happenes? Phantom is added to the National Film Registry. So there were some critics who took him to task, feeling his performances were subpar or overboard, but that's why they're critics. Question: If you could meet Lon Chaney today, what would you say to him? -- I would probably say thanks for giving me a direction in my career and letting me keep his memory alive, and for keeping me out of trouble as a kid! Then I would say, how the hell did you do the Phantom of the Opera makeup?